Comments on: Out of the (Arminian) Frying Pan and into the (Calvinist) Fire

By: Theodore A. Jones

Theodore A. Jones — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 12:14:03 +0000

Who has said “make every effort to use it”? The crucifixion of Jesus has perfected the Way of salvation from the wrath of God., but the directive is “save yourselves”. Acts 2:40.
If your conjecture is right salvation is unilateral and the parable of the Tenants is wrong along with Jn. 16:8. But the student is not greater than his teacher. Since there are only a very few that ever find the small narrow gate perhaps you need to ask why. As for your helpless state. That is poppycock and the answer to the question. There are at least thirty thousand different so called “Christian” sects that appeal to decision philosophy. But no person, no matter his choice of them, is going to enter God’s kingdom by not giving the direct account God has demanded from each man too by Jesus’ crucifixion.
Is this what you confess “O God I am so happy you sent Jesus to die in my place”?, but isn’t it true that at the Lord’s table one can become guilty of the body and blood of the Lord and this table is by God’s purpose a snare and a trap?

By: Aaron

Aaron — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 02:00:48 +0000

Decision theology turns faith into a work you must do.

I think this statement is a fantastic summary of a compelling argument against it. If there is something that I must do to earn my salvation it no longer is a salvation by God’s grace, but our merit.

Indeed the merit may be small (listening and making the choice), but it implies that I made the choice so I get the benefit of the choice I made. It means that Christ did not do enough… and that I had to finish the job. Not what I read in Scripture about our helpless state and Christ’s mission to save us.

By: Theodore A. Jones

Theodore A. Jones — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 20:54:15 +0000

According to Jesus the unilateral condition after his crucifixion is guilt in regard to (a) sin. See Jn. 16:8. Therefore his crucifixion is not an exoneration. His crucifixion has only perfected the Way, a lawful process, an individual might use to be exonerated from the law’s penalty in regard to past sins. Not all individuals were involved as participants in Jesus’ crucifixion, but each individual to save himself must give an account directly to God in regard to Jesus’ crucifixion by an addition made to the law. For if the law had not been changed by an addition Jesus’ crucifixion would have been a unilateral benefit. The only purpose for Jesus’ crucifixion was for the fact to be in place to fulfill the law by adding to it so that what God’s oath demands from each man has become a unilateral law. Can’t you read in Heb. 6 that there two immutable things? God’s oath and an addition to the law by Jesus’ crucifixion.
God is not slack concerning his promise, the guilty shall not go unpunished. Either you by faith obey the Lord’s command, a law given by God’s spirit through the apostles, confessing directly to God that you are sorry Jesus lost his life by bloodshed when he was crucified or God is justified in not sparing you.

By: Dawn K

Dawn K — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 20:03:55 +0000

Theodore,

So what was the purpose of Jesus’ death on the cross? Just to make us all more guilty and to add further Law for us to keep? I’m not understanding how this could remotely be called good news. If that’s the case then all of us are condemned and have no hope because none of us keep the Law perfectly.

Go back and read the verses you quoted in context. Hebrews 7 is talking about Jewish ceremonial law no longer being in effect with the coming of Christ. As for Romans 5:20, this is basically saying the same thing as Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7-12. The passage must be read in light of the preceding and following chapters. You can’t just take a few verses out of context and string them together to prove your point. Scripture must always interpret Scripture.

As for the parable of the tenants, it’s noteworthy that on the cross Jesus prayed for those who crucified Him – “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Even those who put to death the Son of God could be forgiven. The parable of the tenants illustrates what Jesus said in Luke 19:41-44 and what Paul said in Acts 28:23-28. It’s not at all saying there is no forgiveness for individuals who were involved in Christ’s crucifixion.

By: Theodore A. Jones

Theodore A. Jones — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 12:58:26 +0000

Rom. 2:13 NIV, Rom. 5:20, Heb. 7:12, Jas. 1:25 “perfect law of liberty” and many other places. “If ye continue in My Word” is another that comes to mind and “teaching them to obey what I have commanded.” The problem with your doctrine of salvation is that if the crucifixion of Jesus would have been the direct benefit, a man’s death by bloodshed in place of yours, then the parable of the Tenants cannot be true. His crucifixion cannot have been a direct benefit to those who crucified him and the residual issue of retribution by God remain outstanding. However it is true that Christ has died for sinners, all of them even, but, not in place of them as you have assumed. Therefore his death caused by bloodshed is only beneficial if the requirement by law has been attached as an exponential residual of a sin. So then by Jesus’ crucifixion having been the sin of murder caused by bloodshed. It is only his crucifixion as a sin that has been increased as sin whereby the addition of law in regard to the fact of his life having been lost by bloodshed. Each man has become accountable directly to God by bloodshed.
“And for Your life blood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from EACH man too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.” This is God’s set purpose for each man referenced in the Acts two message. The law was changed by an addition to perfect this small narrow gate BY Jesus’ crucifixion. And no man is going to escape the wrath of God by not obeying God this Way. That it is only a few who ever find this gate is not an understated fact.
“It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. ” Rom. 2:13

By: Adam Koontz

Adam Koontz — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:50:10 +0000

Theodore, what do you mean a “law, the law which has been added by Jesus’ crucifixion”? Can you provide me with some places that the Bible talks about a law added because of Christ’s death? Thanks.

By: Theodore A. Jones

Theodore A. Jones — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:14:07 +0000

If you are so certain you are correct put your theory to the test. However since those who actually put Jesus to death did not benefit by that action neither will you. Obedience , OBEDIENCE of a command, a law, the law which has been added by Jesus’ crucifixion is the only Way the wrath of God might be escaped. no matter what you think. God does not respect persons in case you have forgotten.

By: Adam Koontz

Adam Koontz — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:22:05 +0000

Theodore, “where sin abounded, grace abounded all the more.” Jesus Christ’s atoning death is all for sinners, as St. Paul says, “For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.”

The problem with the Pharisees and scribes to whom Christ preaches the parable of the tenants in Matthew 21 is that he is a stumbling-block and foolishness to them. They have rejected the Cornerstone, but there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Yet, “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” The one who calls is not a Pharisee, but a tax collector and sinner who says “Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.”

We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Greeks, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. The Corinthians and we who are God’s sons have the benefit of Christ’s saving death and resurrection because “the word of the cross…to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

By: Theodore A. Jones

Theodore A. Jones — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:05:11 +0000

See Rom. 5:20, and also note that Jesus says that it is only a few who ever find the narrow gate into God’s kingdom. The major problem with your conjecture of salvation is the false assumption that a direct benefit has been granted to you by the sin of murder caused by bloodshed. See the three examples of the parable of the Tenants and note what Jesus says about his father’s intention after his son’s murder. Since they have not obtained a direct benefit by Jesus’ crucifixion neither have you.

By: Richard B

Richard B — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:09:31 +0000

Nice proof-texting – but you still haven’t proved your point. The writer to the Hebrews is contrasting the Old Covenant with the New – pointing out that that the law of the Old Covenant does not save and that the New is something totally different. The rest of the book of Hebrews goes on, as a result, to outline the radical difference between an obedience theology rooted in the observance of the Law (on our part) with Christ’s perfect sacrifice which provides that perfect atonement & forgiveness which we ourselves could never earn.

As a result, what Heb 7:12b is talking about is nothing more than what has already been indicated in Jeremiah 31:31-34 (cf. Heb 8:7-13 to see the explicit connection) – which is the same as what Paul writes about in Ephesians 2:8-9 when he describes salvation which he describes as the product of God’s radical grace in Christ rooted in Jesus’ forgiveness alone – and not in an act of obedience on our part. True – good works are to follow (Eph 2:10) but these are the fruits of a faith built on grace that has already been given – not the condition for it to be there.

Richard B